User talk:Ploversegg
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[edit] Chronology of the ancient Near East needs footnotes
Welcome to Wikipedia. I appreciate your work on Chronology of the ancient Near East. Could I ask you to please footnote your work?? The editors and readers need to be able to link back a qualified published reference. See Wikipedia:Verifiability and Wikipedia:Footnotes for more details. Thanks, and welcome! MapMaster (talk) 16:44, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Kings pages categories
Hi Ploversegg,
I don't know of any standard formats for kings' pages, but the only category you really need for a king's page is xxx kings/xxx people/xxx rulers, whichever there is for that group. These sub-categories are including in all the larger categories, so including larger categories such as Ancient Near East is not necessary. (And if every single article were included in that big category, it would become sort of unnavigable.) And perhaps you could also create some sort of subpage in the Chronology category for the ANE chronology stuff, because that covers a lot of ground as well (although that's not really my field).
Sumerophile (talk) 18:44, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Query about the Old Assyrian kingdom.
Ploversegg, do you have any information about the Old Assyrian kingdom (Shamshi-Adad I et al)? I notice you haven't edited the Kings of Assyria page and that's the only list of OA kings I can find. Blueberrybuttermilkpancakes (talk) 02:23, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
I'm also confused about the Assyrian Middle kingdom on the Chronology page because I can't find Tiglath-Pileser I. Maybe I'm missing something?... Blueberrybuttermilkpancakes (talk) 03:03, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
Well, information on early Assyrian chronlogy is pretty sketchy. For example, Shamshi-Adad I wasn't even Assyrian. He was an Amorite who built a nice but short empire in the area (including Mari) and Ashur was became a vassal state of that. Then the Assyrians co-opted him into their king list. So ... thats why it's not in the Chronology article, which is designed for stuff with firm attestation. A non-wiki site which does a fair job of covering that is
http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/MainListsMiddleEast.htm
at least they are pretty good at ruler order etc.
As for Tiglath-Pileser I, he falls into the iffy "dark ages" between the Middle Assyrian and Neo-Assyrian kindoms where chrono data is almost as sketchy as for the Old Assyrian rulers. The wiki page for him Tiglath-Pileser I, has some stuff which "may" be right, we just don't know for sure. Ploversegg (talk) 18:03, 5 May 2008 (UTC)ploversegg
- If you have a chance, could you take a look at the "Assyria" section of the ANE portal topics page[1], and check the dates, and add any more notable rulers, if there are any? Blueberrybuttermilkpancakes (talk) 03:26, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
I left some comments on the portal discussion page todo list btw. Ploversegg (talk) 15:45, 8 May 2008 (UTC)ploversegg
[edit] WikiCookie
[edit] Chronology of the Ancient Near East
There was some discussion that the Chronology of the ancient Near East needed to be returned to its planned purpose as dealing with the short vs long etc controversies of ANE chronology and splitting of the dynasty ruler stuff to some sort of timeline article. Can we come to some sort of resolution/decision on the future of the article so I can continue to work on it?
I'm fine with whatever but the uncertainty makes it difficult to know how to proceed. As I understand it the choices are
- Leave things the way they are
- Rename Chronology of the Ancient Near East to, say, Timeline of the
Ancient Near East and revert the CANE to what is was before I started working on it and start from there
- Split off part of CANE into a new article, say Timeline of the ANE
and leave part in the old article.
- Something Else
Am going to drop this note is several places, including my talk page Ploversegg (talk) 18:28, 29 May 2008 (UTC)ploversegg
[edit] Great Minds
think alike! ;-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Historicpastime (talk • contribs) 00:56, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
- If you know how to make it invisible, feel free. Historicpastime (talk) 00:59, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
-
- Added link on Portal page and made the bot hook hidden on the project page (changing link to
- go straight to ANE cleanup list vs ancient hist list. Feel free to tweak either.Ploversegg (talk) 23:53, 1 August 2008 (UTC)ploversegg
-
[edit] Eshnunna
I tried to figure out the referencing in the article by looking up some of the other pages. For Eshnunna: please see Second millennium BC which starts at 1000 and ends at 1999 BC. I thought for sure the article was referencing 2100 to 2200 BC which are at the beginning of the Third millennium BC. Thus the article was off by a 1000 years since they were referring to the beginning of the 2nd millennium BC which is 1100 to 1200. (From the SonoranDesert-hots)... of ArizonaUSA)... and "Cheers"!... --Mmcannis (talk) 04:31, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
- Close, but completely backwards. :-)
- Millenium BC begin in their year 1000 (or 999) and end at their year 1 (or zero). For example,
- look at the end of the bronze age section of Second millennium BC that you mentioned, that
- says that barbarians came at the END of the 2nd millenennium. Similarly, the first babylonian
- empire i.e. hamurabi, was in the EARLY 2nd millenium. So yes, you are right that the extent
- of the 3rd millenium BC is 2000 BC to 3000 BC, for example, but it BEGINS in 3000 BC (or perhaps
- 2999BC). No big, just a common mistake for people not used to counting
- years downward as in the time of BC land.Ploversegg (talk) 04:38, 4 August 2008 (UTC)ploversegg
[edit] Mari rulers
Ploversegg, do you have a list of Mari rulers? Historicpastime (talk) 01:12, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
Hm, AFAIK, there is only really historical information about Mari in two periods (plus some vague guess that a couple of the early Kassite kings ruled there while they controlled Mari before the move to Babylon).
The first period was circa 2300 when they were an independent power for a bit before they were taken over by Ebla then by Akkad. The problem with that part is the there is a question whether known rulers of Mari were Kings or governors under Ebla. See 198.62.75.1/www1/ofm/sbf/Books/LA44/44351LV.pdf but I decided there wasn't enough there to put in the timeline.
On the other hand, the period leading up to the capture(possibly the destruction) of Mari by Hamurabi. Clearly Zimri-LiM is well known. The line before him is not certain, but is sem-known. Basically, there were some rulers, then Samsi-Adad place a governor in Mari, then Zimri-Lim began.
Note that these are spelled various ways, and there possible another guy before Yasmah-Adad called Sumu-Yamam. This is not a bad web page
http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/KingListsMiddEast/MesopotamiaMari.htm
but I have NO IDEA where they got the ruler names other than for the two periods I mentioned.
Some good background on this is in # The King and I a Mari King in Changing Perceptions, Jack M. Sasson, Journal of the American Oriental Society, Vol. 118, No. 4 (Oct. - Dec., 1998), pp. 453-470 which I meant to add (along with the above PDF) to the Mari page but forgot to. :-) Ploversegg (talk) 16:43, 11 August 2008 (UTC)ploversegg
- Thanks, I figured as much. I'll add them to Mari anyway in two charts, even if it's not much, because I keep coming across them wrt other kings and wanting to look up the context. Historicpastime (talk) 01:28, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
[edit] categories
Mostly I've been using the "people" category for long-dead people, unless their floruit spans a century boundary in a way that makes a death category less awkward. I.e. if they were known to be active 1722-1745, "18th century people" seems like the right category, but if they were known to be active 1798-1803, then "19th century deaths" is the most obvious single category. In a few cases it also depends on what the article says; i.e. if it says that someone ruled until 1798 at which point they were assassinated, then "1798 deaths" is known; otherwise it's unclear how long they lived after being deposed if at all. As for why I'm adding them in the first place, mostly for subset-retrieval purposes; e.g. for external tools to be able to say, "give me all biographies of people who lived between the 18th and 14th centuries BC". --Delirium (talk) 22:07, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Coordinate templates
You recently created Tarbisu, using {{coor title dm}}. That template is deprecated, and should not be used. Please use {{coord}}, instead. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 00:22, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks. I updated my prototype so future articles will use the new template.Ploversegg (talk) 00:45, 30 December 2008 (UTC)ploversegg
[edit] make Uruk A-class
I would like to take the Uruk article to A-class status. Any suggestions? I don't understand why it is still rated B-class. I should say that I have no access to any books, so there is not much I can do to add content at this point.--Gurdjieff (talk) 11:30, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
- I agree, it has improved enough to be a A-class article. I can touch up the Archaeology section, add a few more inline references. And maybe touch up the rulers section too. Unfortuneately, a lot of the books and papers on Uruk are in German which I can't really read. Anyway, feel free to update to A the article categories.Ploversegg (talk) 22:23, 10 July 2009 (UTC)ploversegg
